Congress: SB3002, Final Congressional Boundaries Designation, by Sen. Okerlund

Independent voters – Start your campaign fundraising against these GOP legislators NOW:
Adams, Anderson, Christensen, Hillyard, Hinkins, Jenkins, Niederhauser, Osmond, Stevenson, Urquhart, Van Tassell, Liljenquist, Sandstrom , and of course, WIMMER! They gerrymandered their own districts, let not let them win their own elections!

Democrats and independent voters – If you are not mad enough already, listen to the audio feed at the end of both the Senate and the House sessions late last night between 9-10:00 pm. when they are patting themselves on the back for “a job well done”, “a great bipartisan map”, “we all worked together to compromise”, “the best efforts ever in UT history to include public input”, “multiple changes made due to public input”, and then each house applauded themselves. The few left in the gallery to witness this final debacle where speechless or vomiting as we had witnessed the lack of compromise that eliminated citizen maps and all compromise maps with straight party lines votes and can no longer see any citizen input in the gerrymandered GOP maps at all.  The emperor has no clothes, kids. Call Governor Herbert and tell him to VETO this monster map, but remember his is one of them also.

I’m not sure how I feel about this map. My only concern is that the voters in southern Utah will once again be “represented” by a SLC Democrat for another 10-yrs.

Considering the importance of religion in Utah society, one would think that the Republican Churchislators would understand and try to abide Proverbs 6:16-19.

[...] Congressional Map (Final): http://www.redistrictutah.com/maps/sb3002enrolled [...]

All you people who are angry at the map. I hope you submitted your own during the many weeks the public was invited to do so? No? hmm. Utah’s population patterns are unique. Some thing to keep in mind before you dismiss the whole effort:

1. The districts have to have equal population, Geography is secondary.
2. Salt Lake county has to be split at least in two. There are too many people to have it in one district. 
3. The districts have to have both urban and rural, That’s just how the population is. All the districts need part of the Wasatch front in order to have enough people. All counties in the state except the 5 on the Wasatch Front (SL, Utah, Davis, Weber, and Cache) put together do not have enough people for one district.
4. More than just SL county must be split. Utah county is too small. Davis and Weber together are too small, Cache and Washington are too small. The only other way to do this is to have 3 mostly urban districts along the Wasatch front and one containing the rest of the state plus chunks of the Wasatch front counties adding up to about 50,000 people. Having 4 urban/rural districts is at least as logical as having 3 urban and one rural with selected chunks of urban gerrymandered in.
5. There aren’t enough Democrats living close to each other to have a safe democratic seat. So, even if that was a valid concern, it just isn’t possible.
6. There aren’t enough Democrats in the legislature, and they aren’t united enough to make a difference. That’s why the map from the Rep. caucus was passed, all they need are most of the Republican votes. 

I wont be to concerned about this map. Two moderate Democrats could win in the utah delegation with this map. It is just no district is safe for a democrat.

I-15 is a natural boundary, easy to describe to people.  The more I look at it, the more I like this map.

I certainly don’t want a district that is made “safe” for a Democrat or Republican more than what the natural population is.  “Safe” districts end up promoting extremists.  One that is more representative of the general population promotes more moderate candidates.

I DO want the representatives from Utah having to answer to rural Utahns.  We used to have a Democrat US Rep. from Salt Lake whose vote seemed to undermine rural Utah every time an issue impacting them came up.  But no one he hurt ever had the chance to vote against him, because his district was just in Salt Lake County.

Herbert VETO this map!

Personally, I hate this map. I hate what it does to the citizens of Utah and democracy in general. But it’s not just me:

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/opinion/article_a2bbeea5-72c3-54f2-ae95-d6ceb1e5423e.html
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700189346/Setting-boundaries.html

Wow I Live in District 4 my high school student attends school in district 3 and I have a couple of kids attending the University of Utah which is in district 2.  I sure hope they had fun drawing that map.

Really – that is just plain and simple B.S. Even the Daily Herald thinks the map was divided among a bunch self serving anti-constitution “representatives”.

I agree that we shouldn’t be grouped together.  Living in SLC I am fine with a democrat, but I can certainly understand that you would rather have someone who represents your area, and not one three hours away at 75+ mph.

If you had really followed the redistricting process you would already know the flaws in your argument. SL County does have to be split once, but NOT 3 times! There were MULTIPLE maps presented that had zero deviation (one man/one vote) but did a MUCH better job with the urban/rural mix., but they were quickly voted out.Democrats don’t need their own protected/safe district. They just want COMPETITIVE districts where the super majority legislature does not cheat and artificially make the districts boundaries “just so” that have 60-65% republican voters where a democrat could not even hope to win. The Dems in the legislature are unified. Their maps were voted down by a straight GOP party vote most of the time. Three democrats voted with the majority this last time, but the bill would have been adopted anyway.

The public may have been heard, but none of their input was utilized in making the Congressional map

That is a lie. To say there aren’t enough Democrats living close enough to to each other to have a safe dem district is a lie, whether an intentional or an uninformed lie by someone not doing his homework it is still a lie.  Salt Lake County has enough Dems, and this process is a shameful abuse of power. get facts. not excuses

if only if only ……. if Utahns were willing to really be brave adn get rid of teh one-party system that lead to this they would vote all DEMOCRATIC in teh next 5 elections adn sho the Republicans that they do in fact have to be responsible and they won’t get automatically re-elected just because have an R next to their name.  These legislators believe adn are correct to do so based on the past that no matter wht they do their party name will save them.  we have a one-party system in this state adn until the people of Utah stand up adn realize the Dems are not evil but their only hope to accountable representation this state is in serious trouble.

POWER CORRUPTS, ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY!!!! get the point? 

believe me, a lot of people who hate this map drew and submitted maps on the site, some like me submitted multiple maps. Dozens of citizen maps were better than this one, and fit the rules just as well. It was clear on the floor that the gop couldn’t defend this map directly against the other more geographically rational (and apolitical) proposals, and chose to ram this through without debate.

I feel rather disappointed by this final map, which doesn’t make nearly as much geographical sense to me as it could.  Here are two much better options, I believe, and I feel disappointed that Utah’s legislators didn’t find enough merit to either of them to adopt them…

* Garber Plan: http://www.redistrictutah.com/maps/congress-garber-plan
* Plewe Plan: http://www.redistrictutah.com/maps/congress-plewe-king-modified-post-committee

Ah, well, there’s always 2021 for us to try again…

You forgot the kingpin of gerrymandering in your list.  Curt Bramblemander.

I just read the article in the Tribune that contained the Dem estimates of Republican voter distribution.  Using their numbers it averages out to 68.25%.  Honestly, do you want to have a district carved out to cater to 31.75% of the population?  How does that represent Utah?  The further left the dems move, the more out of touch they are with what is really important to Utah, Family, Sovereignty, Equal opportunity, not Equal results for the development of strong character.

If that isn’t gerrymandering, I don’t know what is. What’s with the spiral, man?

Not a huge fan of Garber, it slices up Utah county into three pieces(same complaint people have with final map).

Plewe lumps all of Southern Utah into a single district with most of Utah County.  

Can we get our money back!

[...] The approved congressional map can be found here. [...]

I’m just frustrated that it seems like our legislators seemed to have dismissed the maps submitted by the public so quickly. What’s the use of having this website if they had no intention of using it in the first place?

Who owes either party a safe seat? I want contiguous communities together. I drew a map with a line down I-15, rather than the final map that cuts  Sugarhouse, Millcreek and Holladay into 3 districts in a haphazard fashion.

I don’t care about partisan preferences, and the legislature’s own rules say they shouldn’t redistrict in a partisan fashion anyway.

What would be terribly unfair about having 25% of the congressmen representing 31.75% of the population? Is it more fair to have 0% of the congressmen represent 31.75% of the population? What you call catering some might call democracy.

By inspecting the map, it appears to me to be fairly divided.  The fact is, the Republican party is the majority party in the state.  If you would like to see what gerrymandering is, you might want to check out the 12th district in PA, the  late Rep Murtha’s district or the North Carolina 12th district which is represented by a democrat, Rep Melvin Watt.  This district stretches from Charlotte to Winston-Salem to Greensboro.
Illinois has just eliminated 4 or 5 republican representatives from their states Congressional Delegation.  The point being that Utah has done a fair job of drawing up their new districts.  I think your solution would be to pass a law forcing more residents of Utah to vote for the democrats.

Who cares what the Daily Herald thinks or the SL Trib or Deseret News.  You can count the even handed newspapers in this country on the fingers of both hands.  The rest are liberal rags.

You are absolutely right.  We need look no further than the current regime in Washington.

Alex,
You do not know what gerrymandering is.  Just for starters check out the PA 12th district and then the North Carolina 12th district.

Barbara,
I sure hope your kids attending the U are getting a better education than the one you got.

Truth hurts doesn’t it?  I guess telling the truth or presenting the facts makes them liberal.

“The further left the dems move, the more out of touch they are with
what is really important to Utah, Family, Sovereignty, Equal
opportunity, not Equal results for the development of strong character”  The unfortunate problem with your thinking error is that just because people aren’t lily white Mormons doesn’t mean that they do not value the same things!

What’s your point?  Just a mean comment with no purpose!

No, Dixie is was not.  I could not understand what her point was.  My son lives in South Carolina and does not live in the same district as I do.  If I wanted to live in the same district as he does, then I could move to South Carolina.

I can’t tell where Salt Lake City and surrounding areas are split. I still don’t know what Congressional District I am in. Is South Jordan split? What District is it in?

1. A majority Dem. district would need ~300,000 Demorats.
2. The whole state only had 125,992 registered Democrats in early 2008 according to the Lt. Governor. 

Therefore, unless that number has more than doubled in the last two years, and they all live in Salt Lake county, I think my point is valid.

I guess that’s my real question, and it’s a serious one – what would make a map “better” than the one that passed. I really do want to know not just what opponents would substitute, but what makes their maps “better” or “apolitical”

I’m not in the legislature for the debates, so maybe “better” has been concretely defined by opponents, and I missed it. But all I sense is a general dislike of the result (and the process).

So what should have been different – Is it the community divisions? The percentage of party registration? (which ended up fairly equal – about 65% republican in each district).

I’m not trolling, I’m seeking an honest answer from those, like yourself, who have followed the effort more closely than I have.

I’ll be happy to address your points:

1. I never said it needed to be split in 3. But a 3 way split is not inherently irrational. It is quite close to needing to be split 3 ways (<200,000 people short). Splitting three ways gives more flexibility in shaping the other districts, especially looking forward to the next redistricting, when SL county may well need to be split 3 ways given historic growth rates (average 18.5 percent growth over the last three census cycles).2. You're right I haven't followed the process as closely as some, so this is a serious question — What constitutes a "better" urban/rural split? better geographically? More compact?3. As stated below, the whole state has fewer than 150,000 registered Democrats. (yes many "independents" vote democratic). President Obama received about 300,000 votes statewide. The only large county that was competitive (less than 60% for McCain) was SL county, and as you mentioned it has to be split. What would a competitive Democratic district look like? and would that be a less political outcome than the current one? 4. No public input was used? So no one submitted a map similar to the one adopted? I confess I haven't looked, but if there really was no public input even close to these boundaries, you may have a point. Otherwise, it's not that no public input was used, it's just your input was not used.

so which district am I.  I’m at 4949 West Boulder Glen Circle, West Jordan, Ut 84081

Wrong. The correct requirement for a Democratic-majority district would be 1/2 of 1/4 of all people who vote. Based on your figure, I guess you erroneously used 1/2 of 1/4 of all residents and then erroneously compared it to the number of registered Democrats.

In 2010, 635,899 people in Utah voted in US House elections. 218,236 voted for Democrats. That’s 34.3%.

A 55% majority for Democrats in one district would be 636k / 4 * .55 = 88k. That’s only 40% of all people who voted for Democrats in 2010. So in fact it’s mathematically possible to construct TWO Democratic-majority districts, with about 50k people left over who voted for Democrats.

Source: http://elections.utah.gov/election-resources/election-results

Thank you Chris Williams for a nice explanation.  In a state where some of us drive 2 hours just for groceries, we can’t always expect our legislators to be the next door neighbor.  And even those opposing the map have agreed that voters are fairly evenly split.  Thank you to all who work so hard at a thankless job.  This is a difficult process and can never please everyone.

Mathematically you are correct, I made a mistake. Too hasty in my reply. Mathematically possible, yes, but maybe not geographically, as you would be lumping in a lot of Republicans as you gerrymandered the districts.

Also, the poster was referring exclusively to SL county, which has to be split, and was evenly split between D and R in the presidential vote in 2008. ~178,000 each. So, as you correctly suggest, there are enough D voters, but separating them from the equal number of R voters in the split county, and throwing in enough people from surrounding heavily Rep counties to make it to 690,000 total population would led to a weird looking district.

All of this assuming that carving out a safe Dem district is a valid consideration.

I like it.

[...] Congressional: SB3002 [...]

Chris, You do realize that there were republicans that voted against the congressional map and democrats that voted for it. 2/3 of both houses passed it. It was the only map that could pull it off.

Can I find a shape file of this map to download on this website?

Thanks!

Morgan,
You can download a block assignment file from the bill page on the legislature’s web site. I have provided a link below. Block assignment files can be imported into different mapping software.
http://le.utah.gov/~2011S3/htmdoc/sbillhtm/SB3002.htm
If you still want a shape file, I will create one for you. Email redistrictutah.com if you are still interested.

Chris (Legislative Staff)

If you want to know what constitutes a better urban/rural split (assuming that’s even necessary), the King/Garber map is a perfect example.

I would like to know what makes the Democrats so special that they deserve a special district, Just for them so that they can have a Democrat Representitive?  If it is true there are only 300,000 Democrat of a state of almost 3 million why does almost a tenth of the population deserve a quarter of the representation?  Truly how do you really make a distric fair? I would argue that anyway they did it would upset the dems short of making a district of just Dems.

“Better” (in my opinion) would entail keeping people of similar circumstances together. There shouldn’t be a forced rural/urban split because to say that the only way an elected official can effectively represent his/her (in this state – his) constituents is by representing a mix is just plain silly. There is no reason why someone should be forced to represent, for example, farmers in the far Northwest corner of the state and businesspeople in Salt Lake City. It makes no sense; these two groups share few common interests, which makes it nigh impossible for their representative to adequately represent both, causing said representative to either select one over the other or to split their representation. Residents of Salt Lake City (especially the more liberal downtown/Sugarhouse/Avenues/Capitol Hill areas) shouldn’t be forced to accept a representative who cares more about rural issues, and vice versa.

I’m in Pleasant Grove, my grandparents are in Lehi, my aunt is in Ogden, and my in-laws are in Delta.  Gee, I have all four districts covered!  How will we ever manage?!?

Did it ever occur to you idiots to label the four districts on the map?

All I know for sure is that I’m in the big blue blob! Now, if I can only find out which district it is and who represents me, I can be a fully-franchised Citizen of the United States!